I was reading a news the other day, early in the morning, with my first coffee spreading wonderful scent in a pot on my left side. Usually, I skip news about politics and go to Science or IT or anything that is more interesting to me.
First thing I saw was introduction to an article about new revolutionary blood test that could help people predict their lifespan. Wow! Scientists have finaly found a way to give answer to what all of us were asking ourselves at least once in a lifetime: How long will I be in this world? I opened a link and read entire article (I am giving you a link from The Sun because I doubt most of my visitors and readers are fluent in Serbian 🙄 ). Well, I`ve never heard about telomeres before but Maria Blasco, from the Spanish National Cancer Research Centre, said they have found a connection between length of telomeres and possible lifespan. Well, she actually said that shorter telomeres may point to faster aging of cells in someone`s body but they can`t be sure if longer telomeres would mean a longer life. Anyway. What I was thinking, one may have a long telomeres but can`t avoid a possibility to be hit by a truck with a drunk driver behind a wheel. Simply, this world is complicated in so many ways we can`t predict everything. But someone would find it interesting to be sure his or hers cells were meant to provide longer life :left:
Then, I turned the page – I mean, I clicked on another link, and then I found an interview that famous British scientist Stephen Hawking gave to Guardian. "There is no heaven or afterlife…; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." I`ve found it interesting. On the same newspaper and the same day, you can read about test of determining a possible lifespan and then you hear that someone famous and respected like Mr. Stephen Hawking is, says there is nothing you can hope for after your life leaves you. Nothing! End of time. No light, no darkness – just nothing. Don`t get me wrong, I won`t argue with anyone about their own beliefs. I think that every person should believe in whatever he or she find suits them the best. Just to state one thing. I wish all of you who are reading this a very long telomeres. And fruitfull and happy life. And to avoid all drunk drivers. Also, most of you know that I am very tolerant person: if you think there will be Eden or Hell waiting for you, or eighty thousand servants and 72 virgins, or even choir of Mermaids – that`s fine with me. Just don`t tell me there will be nothing. I am not ready for that. Not yet. I have a lot of life energy and we all know that energy can`t be destroyed; it just changes the way it appears, right? I don`t want to shut down like an old computer :left:
I was thinking about those two articles for some time and found one thing, or you may call it event, that connects them. A death. The only certain point between life and afterlife, if there is any. No matter the shape it appears in, it is a final thing, a certainty that will end one and start another.. errr… being.
As what one character in Spanish movie "Alatriste" said:
"Death is just a formality!"
Our energy is transferred. That is a scientific fact. I don't know how Hawking can say there is nothing.
Mit, :DSan, I was surprised, for sure. I was expecting more.. scientific… way of understanding the world from his part. But on the other hand, it could be simple like that – switch the button off and that`s it :left:
Maybe in addition to Telomeres, there are also Truckomeres, Trainomeres, 747omeres. Studying them will be able to determine your risk factor for getting hit by a Truck, a Train or a 747. Darko, I once saw a Talk Show whereby the featured guest was a so-called Psychic. People were asking him various questions. More than one person actually asked the Psychic what year they were going to die. :insane: And the Psychic actually nonchalantly, matter-of-factly told them a specific year in which they were going to die :eyes: … according to him. And the people just calmly accepted the answer … and probably even thanked him for the Info. :yikes:
Originally posted by Darko:
No need to worry, Darko. That problem can easily be remedied.You can simply counter that alleged famous Stephen Hawking's statement the same way as one of Joe Pesci's opening lines in court in the movie My Cousin Vinny:Vinny Gambini: Uh… everything that guy just said is bullshit… Thank you. Anyway, how famous can that Stephen Hawking be?I've never heard of him. Does he have a MyOpera Blog? No? Well, there you go. He has no credibility. Problem solved. Feel free to censor a certain word in my comment if need be.Uhhh, yeah, you know … that "Hawking" is too close to "King" and you KNOW I don't think much of Stephen King. So, feel free to censor it. I can't think of any other word that could possibly arguably require censoring.
Well, you know I follow Buddhist philosophy, which is highly scientific , based on thousands of years of observations at a molecular level. We are all vibrational energy and when we die this energy does not die, it is transferred somehow. Well, I believe it. Anyway, there are so many mysteries about the meditation practices of the Buddhist monks and how they can know their past lives, how can we just discount that?
It must be a very dark and hopeless feeling to believe that there is nothing after this life. I mean, why bother? Ya' know?There is definitely more. Otherwise, there would be no point in this life.:smile:
You made some excellent points…All I know is that energy cannot be created or destroyed… It just transfers.Makes you wonder where it came from initially… And where it ends up when all is said and done. Course… :left: I have my theories. :yes:
Carlos, there is something strange in human psychology – the fact that some people want to know how much time they will have. There is a saying "be careful of what you wish". The answer would be so surprising. This is why I will never like to know that. It is better to live a life like it will last forever :DSan, a life is probably one of the biggest misteries of humanity. No matter what one believe, this energy can`t just dissapear. I know that :happy:StarOriginally posted by Stardancer:
Interesting point! :yes:Jen, make a post about your theories, I would like to read about them :yes:
Hm, I wonder how accurate that blood test is. I'd never go for it though. One of the best things about life is surprise. Not knowing what's ahead. That's how you grow. And afterlife or no, that's also unknown. We'll all find out one day 😆
I find that the people who are most likely to live longer (and, as a serial killer my opinion should count as expert enough) are those who are more prepared to live a long life. You see some people out there in their forties and fifties and they still don't have the sense that they were born with, and you just know that it'd be merciful for them not to live as long, while others are overly hard and can't come to terms with their own existence. Finding the right balance in your life seems to make you live that bit longer and make it worthwhile too.As for the afterlife, hold this.*hands Darko a small wooden peg*You'll always be fine as long as you have this on you.Such are the rules of the afterlife as regarded by religions across the world. I look to the fact that we've got one life here and anything that comes next will be handled then. While I know I've got a limited existence, I'll make the most of it and achieve as much as I can during it. If there is anything next then I'll have a lot to look back on, but if not I know I wont die having wasted my life, and that's enough for me.
I'm embarrassed to say that I have a very short telomere. But you know it's really just how you use it. All I can say is if people start getting this test they're going to start maxing out their credit cards like crazy. :pGreat post, speculations.
Interesting post! Even if I did take a test, I wouldn't think about it much because, as you say, you can suddenly meet a drunk driver or a random crazy serial killer (yes, Mik).Whatever happens next, happens. I'm not dying (pun intended) to figure it out just now…
Originally posted by gdare:
Oh I've had a number of tests over the years. And may I say that in the main the testors were quite happy with the results — short telemeres or not.:p
KimmieOriginally posted by Spaggyj:
Nicely said. What will bring another day is much better than just counting days till the end :left: As someone said, life is not a number of breaths but a number of breath taking situations :DMick 😆 I like that :DMik, I must admit I had to read your comment twice. A quality over quantity. I was thinking about it when I was much younger :psmurf: and I was always thinking that having a long life, no matter how troublesomed, is better than living short and die young. Then I grew up and understood that what you have in life – happiness, health, someone you love and share all good and bad things – is much better than spend decades alone and die without fulfilling your purpose in this world. Whatever that purpose is.Ed, how do you know they are short if you didn`t have a test? :PThanks :DRose, we all meet drunk drivers here and there but how do you know you`ve met a serial killer? And survive to tell about it? :left: :insane:
Sorry. I just couldn't resist. 😀
Darko, I've been thinking of death a lot lately.I don't think I need a blood test to tell me when my time is up. I feel I already know.Thank you, I wish you a very long telomeres. And fruitfull and happy life also.
Carol, when someone is ill and in pain, then he/she thinks the end is close. But it doen`t have to be. One can`t be objective in sutuations like that.
Buddhist say it is important to contemplate your death as it makes you more mindful of your life.
Darko, not only thinking a lot about death but also a lot about why are we even born, what's the point of living if you are going to die anyways.
The way I figure it, if you can do or experience at least one good thing in a day, whether that's something small like reading a book you like or walking around a garden, or something a little less trivial like spending time with loved ones, you've had a good day. At the end of your life, if the good days outweigh the bad, you've done well, and whatever comes after that can sort itself out. But that's just me. My mood may vary. 😆
Originally posted by gdare:
I like that.
Originally posted by sanshan:
Martin Heidegger had a similar idea — he called it Being Towards Death.
I think the purpose of life is to be happy. Not all of us can reproduce. When we die our energy is transferred in even a more fundamental way than through genes.
I think that the purpose of our life is to reproduce, of course there are other purposes like to learn, to create, to love,..but reproduction is more important. So one day when we die the part of us which we transfered by genes to our children will continue to exist.
San, there is something like that in "Hagakure" written by Yamamoto Tsunetomo:"Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day when one's body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one's master. And every day without fail one should consider himself as dead.There is a saying of the elders' that goes, "Step from under the eaves and you're a dead man. Leave the gate and the enemy is waiting." This is not a matter of being careful. It is to consider oneself as dead beforehand."David, I like your mood today :cheers:Mira, this is interesting opinion. That way we can track our genes back in past, through generations of our ancestors 😀
Darko, this is interesting subject to me. I am afraid of death like probably the most of people. I really hope that death is not like forever sleep without dreams..Originally posted by sanshan:
Where is transfered our energy?
I don`t hink most of the people are afraid of death, because no one was ever around to talk about it. I think most of the people are afraid of dying `cause it could be "troublesome"…
i want to be eated when i'm dead so my energy can be transferred into ya'll :happy:
😆 who's going to pay for postage?:left: And who gets to divvy it up?
🙄 😆 😆
Life-Line Much better :p
Jen, not me :left:Mart, you would like to have a test and then be payed for it? :left:
*daydreams* cremation and alot of salt shakers.. Yeah.. That can work..
Hey, Darko, I for one am sure that we continue after our bodies die. I used to doubt this. Then, at the age of 15 I had what people call a near death/out of body experience as a result of a cardiac anomaly and heatstroke. As my soul (who we really are) left my body all my thoughts, experiences, emotions,etc., came with me. It's just hard to explain with words briefly, but it did make me a believer in our having an eternal existence, which, at the time, I had come to doubt, having read way too many books written by the blind for the blind. This is a personal experience and so I don't expect others to give it much credence. Some years later I had other personal experiences that made me believe the veracity of the Bible and the Gospel; despite my skepticism and all the very bad examples by the religious around me and in history–playing like propaganda films across the screens of time. :dragonfly:
I was once loaded on ale from drinking all day and night and experienced being in two places at once: having a conversation with someone, and watching me have the conversation with them from about rooftop level. …Does that count as an out of body experience?….I clinically died once, but dont remember anything except coming around doing Johnny Depp in Libertine impressions. It seemed somehow fitting….
They say timing is everything in comedy and no timing is as common as iambic pentameter! Though not a limerick, perhaps a poem by O Henry would be indicated: The Lullaby BoyThe lullaby boy to the same old tuneWho abandons his drum and toys For the purpose of dying in early JuneIs the kind the public enjoys. But, just for a change, please sing us a song,Of the sore-toed boy that's fly, And freckled and mean, and ugly, and bad,And positively will not die.
Clin, salt shakers? :left:Abbacus, once I heard a story from one woman who also had a near death experience and she said she felt like being in a tunnel walking toward light when someone told her it is still not time and dragged her back – like, literally, someone grabbed her arm. Later I read somewhere that feeling like being in tunnel has something to do with our brain shutting down. It would be interesting to hear your experience :up:Russ, my friend had an surgery and he swore he was standing by the table along with surgeon and nurses watching his own body laying there. Maybe it is those chemicals they use for anaesthesia :left:
Originally posted by Stardancer:
that is a good way of putting it, Star. I (Darko knows what I believe already, but since he mentions after life, I will share) believe in God/Elohim as Creator, and Jesus as Saviour and Holy Spirit as Helper through this life and sealer of our after life / our identity as we accept Christ…http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/series-index/hallowed-be-thy-name-eight-sermons-on-the-names-of-godI like the logic that Star presents in her simple statement.very INTERESTING photograph!
Jill, I think many cultures and religions have a term "after life" for explaining the unexplainable part of our being… "here" 😀 This is why I used it and your comment is welcome like any other :yes:
thank you, Darko! 🙂
Good post, Darko. I'm on the 'nothing' side of the debate. Although energy is transformed Breakdown of matter, dissipation of heat etc), this does not imply that concepts such as personality, memory, coherence of identity, persist. These are all simply attributes of our current state. And because there is nothing left in any personal sense, it makes the value of what we have, our life, all the more significant. Our extension is by way of our ideas, actions and influences, and by how we are held in the memories and lives of others.
But consider the physical universe the draping for something else, which does not change, or which has its own nature, beyond the definition or boundaries of the physical universe….We may always be the rider on the subway going past a series of stops, but the existence of the train & the stops are not necessary the same thing as the consciousness of the rider: in classical Buddhist metaphysics, there is a sort of clunky analogy: imagine a flashlight illuminating sand, which you have thrown into the air.While the light illuminates the sand, the light is not sand, the sand is not light and the movement of the sand is itself not a property of either the sand or the light….You can extend that analogy numerous ways:just because we experience something, does not mean we are necessarily part of it.
I make no distinction between mind-spirit/matter (the great Cartesian error). Reality for me is simply 'action' or, more properly 'agency' so is much more extensive than the mere physical. But something that 'does not change' cannot appreciate my creativity. Life = change. 😉
Originally posted by Words:
Hmm. This got me thinking. Those are placed inside brain and are made of electric impulses, right? But then, when we die, that electricity can`t just disappear? It probably all goes to zero but it is just changed to another state…
Originally posted by gdare:
Oooh, that's far too materialistic. Think of it more as a society of independent entities choosing to form a harmonious pattern of being which we regard as ourselves (mind-body are a continuum of form, not two distinct elements that join together).
But even our thoughts are product of some.. processes… that happen in our brains – chemical or electric.
But, if it is not our brains doing the thinking or perception anyway: rather they might be considered receivers for our loopy long lasting self.Deja vu? precognition? Where does knowledge of the future come from? It can't come from a nonexistent future: if the future exists as a constant, then this whole thing is on automatic….We are sitting in the same place, whether the auditorium or the chairs are there….We are sitting facing the stage, whether the stage is there or not.